HEMIWagon Project Log: Update! itshappening.gif Edition

"JGrabowMSt" (jgrabowmst) 05/09/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: HEMIWagon Project Log, HEMIWagon, Project Car, Wavetrac

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It’s been quite some time since the last !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! of the HEMIWagon. Oh the places we’ve gone.

As of the last serious update, the KW V2 Coilovers were installed, the front end bushings were completed, and the rears were a partial because of some hiccups. Well, last week, all of that was corrected. The rear subframe had to be dropped for some awesome reasons, and in the end, it meant that the bushings could be completed 100%, and also was down for the epic installation of what is now making the beast move.

2.82 open diff, little toy axles and completely shot wheel bearings

What’s a project log without a before picture? This is the rear subframe of the HEMIWagon. About 177500 miles on it, most bushings were shot, axles were replaced last August because I tore up a CV boot on the drivers side, and the passenger side alignment was just out of spec with no way to correct it.

I got two sets of these

The control arm situation was tough at first. As a fun fact, do you know how many companies make adjustable sets for the Chrysler LX platform? Two. Razors Edge and Spohn. If there’s another one, great, but I couldn’t find it. I went with Spohn because I liked the design better. I got black ones, because I thought red would clash with the bright yellow KW springs on the car, next to the black everything else. The control arms fixed the alignment perfectly, but would I really write a whole project log update for four shiny new control arms? Nope.

The good and bad part of Ebay are all the wrong listings that go up.

It was time for a differential swap. The wheel bearings were cooked, they literally had nothing left to them. I started the search for a Limited Slip Differential, and wish I saved a few more of the pictures.

A 2010 Challenger that went up in a garage fire ended up being the donor vehicle. Actually, two 2010 Challengers and a 2006 Charger have been donor vehicles for the HEMIWagon. In time, a 2005-2008 300C will probably also be a donor, but more on that when I get there.

The thing about the picture above is that the VIN for the car and the description of the part don’t line up. I ended up asking the seller for more photos of the part itself, and lo and behold, it was the exact part I was looking for, listed incorrectly. The 3.06 Limited Slip Differential in the Challengers is a whole hell of a lot bigger than what’s pictured, and it doesn’t use a 3 bolt driveshaft. It means you’re looking at a 215mm differential for the LX cars. They’re all open from the factory. This meant I scored the differential carrier and the ring and pinion gears that I’ve been searching for. Only one thing left to do now...

I asked on the LXforums and a few other places about what LSD to go for. Quaife, Getrag or Wavetrac. The Getrag units are clutch based, which I wasn’t super thrilled about, I wanted to have a zero maintenance unit. Quaife and Wavetrac are nearly identical in how they function, but a lot of Quaife units have been breaking lately, and Quaife has been blowing people off by not honoring their lifetime warranty anymore. That just means there’s only one option left. Wavetrac it is. One edge of the carrier had to be ground down a bit for clearance, but it’s a normal thing, so just carry on and drop the unit in.

Before installing your differential (mine had 40,000 miles before the garage fire totaled the Challenger), make sure you clean it out extremely thoroughly. I assure you, it was not this clean when it arrived, but I popped the cover off when it got delivered, and it was impressive how clean it looked even before the unit got flushed out. The differential came out of a V6 car, which means that it was far less likely to have been thrashed on.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Also, a word of advice with these differentials, the snap rings are huge. By that I mean be EXTREMELY careful when removing them, and make sure you have the proper tools. These snap rings could kill someone. Safety first, kids.

And now, the moment I’m sure you’ve all been waiting for, the shiny, totally poly bushing’d rear subframe of the HEMIWagon.

The axles are bigger, the wheel bearings are bigger and wheel hubs are nice and shiny, but they came at a price. When swapping parts between cars, know that it really helps to have the corresponding VINs on hand. I have two separate VINs for 2010 Challengers, one for the rear and a separate one for the interior (more on that later). It took 4 tries from either a dealer or parts store to have the correct axle seals for the differential. If you work in a parts store, I encourage you to learn about custom swaps and compatible part numbers. It helps everyone else too.

But wait! There’s more!

This part is the super long overdue section, where I’m going to be vague because I am fairly certain (as I couldn’t find any supporting forum info) that I’m the only crazy bastard who chose to go this far. About a year ago, I went looking for some Challenger seats. The benefit to the Challenger seats are the actual seat bolsters, as the stock Magnum seats have none. I didn’t want seats that were plastered with SRT badging, as it’s not an SRT and I didn’t want to have to mess with the upholstery at all. After some very extended back and forth with a great and very patient guy who ended up moving very close to me, I scored a beautiful set of 2010 Challenger RT seats. The guys Challenger is bad to the bone. Recaro seats up front, cam, exhaust, he had been looking at more motor work as well. He kept his seats, and luckily I was looking at the right time. Owning a wagon is also the best part, because both seats fit in the back with no problem.

This was the really hard part. The seats were not plug and play. In fact, they were everything but. Physically, the seat rails fit perfectly and bolted right in, but that was the extent of it. The wiring harness and necessary sensors made this swap very difficult. That said, the end result is extremely rewarding, knowing that I probably have the only Magnum with a fully functional, power Challenger seat swap in the front. The rear seats have not been touched yet, but I have been searching for seat covers, as the seat backs are different on the Magnum (because it’s a wagon). I also plan on installing seat heaters for the back seats when I do that, and integrating the controls to look like the front seats do for the rear.

This was a test fit, and not quite how it looks right now. I spent many hours getting these working and together, now that I know exactly how it goes, I could probably replicate it in an afternoon with the right parts. If you own a Challenger and you know how the seat back lights come on, just know that when I do the back seats, I plan to wire up those lights as well, but they are currently not powered.

You thought that was the end of it!? Of course not, but that’s the end of the pictures (unless you saw my post on Facebook).

I just picked up my wheels yesterday morning. 18x9 5 spoke steel wheels, and I’m now tire shopping again. The tire I was originally going to get is no longer made (story of my life right now), so I now have to settle for a different size altogether. I’m going to be getting a set of 255/55R18 tires for the rear, and keeping the fronts at 225/60R18 for a staggered look without going crazy. Now, I’m not 100% sold on this, as I may end up stuffing larger tires on the car, but I need to talk to a guy at Diablosport as well as take another look at the sizes and rear suspension. The rear of the car may be raised about a 1/2 inch if that’s what it comes down to to stuff some balloons into the wheel well (265/60R18 if I can find a tread I like).

For anyone who wants to know some numbers, the axles are rated for 500HP and safely tested north of 600 on some drag cars. The differential has no horsepower limit as long as it has the correct fluid and fluid level. I currently have just shy of 400 miles on the differential and it feels great. Just need to go back over some grease fittings because there’s a bit of a squeak that I can’t track down coming from the rear drivers side.

Photos of the wheels and the new tires when they get test fit, painted and stuffed onto the car.

Until then, Happy Mother’s Day, go do something nice for your mom, and if you have questions about the HEMIWagon, post them below!

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > JGrabowMSt 05/08/2016 at 13:01

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Its crazy the difference a good set of seats can make to a car, good upgrade. Love this project.

AfromanGTO > JGrabowMSt 05/08/2016 at 13:19

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That’s awesome! I always wanted a SRT Magnum. There used to be a steel blue one I’d see around when I had my Cyclone Grey GTO.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > JGrabowMSt 05/08/2016 at 13:41

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Those seats look great in there.

Steve in Manhattan > JGrabowMSt 05/08/2016 at 14:59

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Nice work. The goal is ... manual with Hemi engine?

JGrabowMSt > Steve in Manhattan 05/08/2016 at 15:36

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Manual with a bigger HEMI, yes!

Meatcoma > JGrabowMSt 05/09/2016 at 09:16

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That thing has drum brakes in the rear?

mr2gud2u > JGrabowMSt 05/09/2016 at 10:32

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Awesome!!! Your build is really coming along nicely. Email me when you get the subframe bolted back up and put some miles on that car. Id like to know how it responds.

JGrabowMSt > Meatcoma 05/09/2016 at 10:41

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Negative. Those shoes are for the parking brake. The inside of the normal rotor has a ring just for the parking brake pads.

JGrabowMSt > mr2gud2u 05/09/2016 at 10:44

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I think tomorrow we’re going to drain and check, Im nearly at 500 miles on the new diff. It certainly feels different, but right now since its breaking in, I cant really rail into it and see how it feels. At lower cruising speeds it does feel very stable though. Just a little wiggle on wet pavement that leads me to believe its doing its job, but its just not 100% yet. Ill let you know when Im able to launch it and how it feels to get past the one wheel peel.

Meatcoma > JGrabowMSt 05/09/2016 at 11:49

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gotcha.

JGrabowMSt > Meatcoma 05/09/2016 at 13:39

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It is on the to-do list to convert it to a viper style, tiny caliper for the parking brake in the future. You know, also part of removing ABS and possibly installing a hidden line-lock.

Never hurts to consider.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > JGrabowMSt 05/09/2016 at 13:51

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Those seats looks great in there and are the next best thing to SRT seats w/ upholstery. The SRT seats are soooooooooo nice though, these are about the same looks like.

I have the same issue as you on alignment, can’t be done. Do I need both uppers or only 1 set? I’ve been looking at Razors Edge, didn’t know there was another supplier!

Was thinking of a Quaife diff, but this one sounds much better.

Loving the progress, keep it up!

JGrabowMSt > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 05/09/2016 at 14:10

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If you look at the pictures of the whole carrier, you’ll see there are about 5 control arms on each side (and I think theres another that isnt pictured). What you need to know is whether its toe or camber thats out. The forward control arms adjust toe, and the uppers (top, center) are obviously camber. I did all of them because I lowered the car and theres no factory camber adjustment, but one set is all you need if its just one aspect thats out. The Spohns I got off HHP for about $200 a pair. Cheap, strong and fully adjustable.

The Wavetrac seems to be holding up just fine, we’re draining and refilling the fluid probably tomorrow as a precaution, then again in 1000 more miles, and after that Ill probably change the fluid ever 50k unless Wavetrac tells me otherwise. Fluid is a lot cheaper than a diff.

Before you buy control arms, pull the wheel off of each side on the rear and check the bolt rotation. The forward arms may have the bolt facing the gas tank and the nut on the inside of the wheel. This means the carrier has to be dropped in order to swap the arms, and I would suggest waiting to drop the subframe unless you want to drop it twice. I opted to wait, dropped the carrier once and Im glad I did. Getting the exhaust and driveshaft off is a bitch because theyre so heavy. Another thing to consider are your driveshaft, the older SRT shafts are prone to splitting if you launch the car hard. DSS sells 600hp drag axles, but theyre expensive. Speedlogix covered my ass and found me a set of factory 09 axles somehow (took them a month, but im impressed that they pulled through and kept me in the loop). Cheaper than DSS, but still a lot. You should already have the 215 diff though, so a good race or custom shop could do the swap to a Wavetrac easily, but as I mentioned originally, the snap rings are massive and dangerous to get out. Truck sized snap ring pliers were not enough.

Late in the fall Ill be looking for a 6.4L block to push into a corner and start my stroker build. New job may even allow me to afford going as big as I want as well.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > JGrabowMSt 05/10/2016 at 08:33

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I think it was my camber that is out, because as you say there is no adjustability built in for some reason......

Do you notice any difference in ride quality with the poly bushings on the sub frame? Thinking that would be a good route to go all at once as well in the future.

And I’m saving this post so I remember in the future!

JGrabowMSt > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 05/10/2016 at 11:59

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The ride quality is immensely firmer. Not in a bad way, but Im railing on the brakes when I approach railroad crossings. I feel every bit of it, but Im also lowered on KW V2 coilovers, which made a huge difference over the stock Nivomats (same as what you should have).

I need to sort out the front end, theres a bump steer kit that Im looking at because it basically converts the tie rods to heim joints, and the bump steer in a 4400lb wagon can be excessive at times.

I have a new update Ill be posting in a day or so, I just did spark plugs and the MDS solenoids. Im sore in ways I didnt care to remember from it, but holy crap the absolute carnage involved in removing the MDS solenoids....all in the name of horsepower AND fuel economy.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > JGrabowMSt 05/10/2016 at 13:52

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Ok thats about that I figured.

Razors Edge bump steer kit? I’m curious how that actually works, because yes bump steer in these cars in quite excessive......

What did you replace the MDS solenoids with? They have a measured leak rate that lubricates the lifters when they are off, just so you are aware. So hopefully you put something in that allows oil to go through the same. Can’t you just disable MDS in the Diablo tuner?

JGrabowMSt > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 05/10/2016 at 14:17

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I just replaced the MDS solenoids with new ones. One was broken already, two had to be mangled and one managed to pop out without much fight (somehow). It was quite the process, but I survived. I probably shouldnt have waited until like 7:30pm to start, but thats a different story. I still have some lifter noise, but I experienced a bit of an Exxon Valdez moment because one of the solenoids didnt seal during the install, but I caught it early and everything is fine. I caught a second major issue last night, and now the car is actually running right, so thats a big step in the right direction.

Wheels went to powder coat this morning, I need to have my decal for the wheel made too...so many things to do....

The bump steer kit is very technical, it alters the height of where the tie rod attaches to the knuckle so that when the suspension travels, the hub isnt pulled in or pushed out. Ive seen a little bit on designing bump steer kits, but my main reason for it is the heim joint. Ive had a tie rod break apart in the past, and its a pretty scary experience. Actually, it was the moment that made me start carrying a tool box and accumulate tools that stay in the car at all times.

I dont plan on doing it immediately, but once I have the money, Ill buy it for the next round of parts going in. More than the bump steer, I want the durability of the heim joint.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > JGrabowMSt 05/11/2016 at 09:19

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Ok, glad you just put in new solenoids. I thought it was kit you were doing to delete them. Surprised they were that much of a pain to get out though, that sucks.

What color are you doing the wheels with the black car? Bronze would look nice, or really anything lol.

Ok so thats what they change on the Bump kit. Its on my list for sure, maybe this year.

JGrabowMSt > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 05/11/2016 at 10:19

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Right now Im having the wheels powder coated gloss black for a complete sleeper look. The extra tire is tucked under the car, so from the outside, it will appear stock, which is what Im going for. I was considering either a graphite metallic or a bronze for the brake calipers when I upgrade though.

The solenoids have like 3 O-Rings that make them seal very well....too well in most cases. One method is compressed air through the lifter hole, but I wasnt about to pull the heads and lifters just to do that (though I think I have a bad lifter, its going to stay bad, I want to save money for the stroker build).

As long as I dont have to work late, tonight is going to be a tire shopping night.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > JGrabowMSt 05/12/2016 at 08:48

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Gloss black will look good on that car too, especially with bronze calipers.

Ah true, can’t have oil leaks!

JGrabowMSt > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 05/12/2016 at 13:10

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The next round of parts are going to be a brake upgrade, I would love to go 6 piston up front and 4 out back, but I need a kit that will clear the 18" wheels. Ive been told (without any supporting info) that with a modified bracket, the SRT calipers can clear, but Im not sure, I need to measure the inside of the wheel and the calipers and the rotors and see what will actually fit. It will be a long process. Ill keep you in the loop, its all custom work from here, starting with the brakes and then the motor and trans swap....

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > JGrabowMSt 05/12/2016 at 20:29

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I'm sure you're aware the AMG 6 Pistons fit.......need a bigger rotor to use all of the pad. But trust me, 4 Pistons at all 4 corners stop VERY well.

JGrabowMSt > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 05/12/2016 at 23:40

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Yeah, I need to measure a little more if I consider the 6 piston, but if I’m being honest, it may just be the precautionary way to go, as the planned 426 swap will be a lot meaner than the 6.1L, and if I need to stop, I’m going to want the best I can squeeze under the wheels. I’d probably end up getting a set of the vented fog bezels just for brake ducting as well. The stock brakes experience a significant amount of fade after not very long, something that I need to address if I come close to doubling the horsepower.

Currently the issue is the way the 18" steelies are tapered, I need to make sure they’ll clear a larger caliper.

At the moment I’m really stuck on tires though. Had a short conversation about tires with Tire Rack today, and it didn’t really put me into a more confident spot compared to yesterday. Currently I’m looking at a 235/60 up front with 255/55 in the back, and to put it lightly, the selection is not wide. I could have sworn the previous generation Ventus V12 came in the size I wanted, but of course I can’t find the info to back it up anymore. I’m really down to a Pirelli or a Falken tire. There’s a Nitto tire I kind of want to try, but the fronts would only be a 235/55, which would lower my ride height in the front, which I don’t want. More measurements are necessary. The problem is that while plenty of people have modified Magnums, most of the wild builds were dropped off at a shop, where I’m doing nearly all of the research and parts buying instead. I only have my friends shop do the work I don’t have the tools for (or the stuff that makes me nervous as hell, like the Wavetrac install).

The fact that I’m so hung up on the 18" wheels doesn’t help either. I just love how they look on the car, but a 19 or 20 inch wheel has so many more tire options. Sidewall needs to make a comeback...it really really does.

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > JGrabowMSt 05/13/2016 at 10:22

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Good point, 6 pots would help a lot with that much power. Plus, you should be able to just bolt the new ones on from a Charger/Challenger without too much headache.

Have you looked at the Invo’s? Those are supposed to be good. Could also go with a DR in the back, and something different up front since you’re going to be staggered anyways. NT55R or something similar would work (I think thats the name). With the power you’ll make, you want as much traction as possible.

18's look good on the Magnum, but I love my 20's. Rides well enough with them, I’d never go bigger. I’m surprised there aren’t more tires selections for the 18" though.

JGrabowMSt > StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 05/13/2016 at 12:47

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Im considering Nitto NT420S tires, going 235/55 up front and 255/55 in the back. The Invo tires dont come in the correct size for what Im aiming for, which is why I cant go with them.

Theres also the Nitto Motivo that Im considering, very solid treadwear rating, but not much of a performance tread. The Pirelli Scorpion Verde, but again, not a very aggressive performance tread, but a really high treadwear, which is what I want to find a balance with. I definitely am not going to sacrifice treadwear for performance, it needs to be capable in both capacities.

I also am aiming to minimize the loss of ride height in the front, stock is 225/60, so going to a 235/55 will lose approximately 1/4" of ride height. I think I can accept that. Wheels come back from powder coat on Monday, I want to order tires by Monday afternoon and get the car together before next weekend. This weekend I have to troubleshoot the wiring harness a bit, I get a persistent Cam Position Sensor (P0344) and Ive tried both an aftermarket and OEM new sensors and the code always comes back. Its a bitch.